Sailing

Advice for rigging a 15' Catamaran

Beached	Now I know how "Skipper" felt on "Gilligan's Island." I was given a 1978 MacGregor/Venture 15' Catamaran. This Cat has not been in the water for 15 years. The hull and mast are in perfect shape. I have most of the hardware. Also the sails are new but what is missing is the shrouds and lines. I need a picture or some 'how-to' rigging advice. Ed Canon PS-Has anyone seen "Maryanne" around?	2002-07-29
Knoxes	Ed - did you get my reply on the other forum?	2002-07-30
flashback	Ed, there is no set formula for rigging a sail boat. step the mast with temp line and center it, then measure your shroud length allowing for turnbuckles, straps, etc. McGregor may even have specs on the boat..	2002-07-31
Beached	KNOXES-I'm new to this forum. Thanks for the advice (ask sailing questions in the sailing forum ).Duhh **	2002-08-01
Beached	FLASHBACK,thanks for the rigging info. I called Macgregor in California, but was told much of there info for the late '70's cat is not available anymore. Can you recommend a book that deals with small catamarans.	2002-08-01
StringBox	Ed I'm not familiar with your boat, but I've spent a bunch of time on cats. Do you have any pictures of your mast and hull and hardware? Do you have the original lines and shrouds or just the hardware? Does your boat have a jib or just a main sail?	2002-08-02
Knoxes	Well I hope the other info I gave was helpful (not just to post in the proper forum ). I think we need some additional info here and we can get you going in the right direction. I can't recall any books about cats in particular - but I/we could surely refer some if we knew what you were looking for... what parts do you have? what specific problem are you trying to fix? Are you having problems stepping the mast? raising sail(s)? tackle, blocks?	2002-08-02
Beached	STRINGBOX About that cat. I've obtained a copy of the brochure from http://www.Macgregor-boats.com. My problem is that I need more details. All the lines are gone ,but the mainsheet pulley is fine. The shrouds and jib stay are not original (1/8" stainless steel). My questions are at what angle is best for the mast (fore & aft). How far aft should the shrouds lead from the mast and how tight. ------------------------------------------- Project boats are fun	2002-08-06
Beached	Knoxes You guys may have opened a Pandora's boat... I mean box. Jib,mainsail,blocks,stoppers and all hardware ,except lines and shrouds, are accounted for. The info I need is simple (sure).What is the best mast angle and shroud lead? Do you think my jigsaw puzzle will be just trial and error.	2002-08-06
StringBox	Angle is a relative thing. In lighter winds, you will want the mast straighter than you will in heavier winds. Raking the mast back should depower the boat a bit, and allow the bow to ride higher to avoid pitch-poles in big seas. You should have an adjustable chain plate on the hulls so that you can adjust the angle. You should be able to find a chainplate that would work at Boaters World or a You should also have a chain plate on the bridle at the bow. It is important to have the rig fairly tight once the mast is stepped. You will always have some play on the leeward shroud with the boat under sail. To much play, and your mast can come out of the foot. This is not a good thing when you are flipped over and 5 miles out to sea. I'll see if I can't draw you up something tonight so that you will have a better idea. I could use a picture of your boat hulls.	2002-08-09
StringBox	I Checked your link, could not see the rigging in the picture well enough to tell much. The following diagram is very basic. It allows you to adjust the rake of the mast forward or aft by moving the pins in the chain plates up and down. I need to know how your jib is attached to the fore stay. If you can, send me some pics or post them. You can email them to me direct so there is not a bunch of slow loading pictures in this post. Hope this helps	2002-08-09
Beached	GREAT DIAGRAM !! You should be re-creating manuals of sailboats that aren't available anymore!! I'd buy one. I don't have any pictures other than the brochure you've seen. The jib slides over a tube that slides over the forestay. The forestay mounts to the center of a crossmember .This crossmember is mounted bow to bow. The shrouds do have chain blocks, but I have 4 different locations ( fore and aft} to mount them to. Any suggestions on an angle the shrouds should be. ----------------------------- It's getting easier	2002-08-09
StringBox	The angle is going to depend on the wind, the type of water you are sailing in, and how much weight is onboard. You may have other spots for mounting trap wires. Generally, the closer the mast angle is to 90 degrees the more power you will have from the sails, but the lower the bow will ride in the water. Kind of like tilt/trim on an outboard. However, you can end up driving the boat into the back of a wave and playing submarine. This is called a pitch pole and it feels kind of like you hit the end of a leash tied to a telephone pole. You stop abruptly and the boat can flip end over end throwing you and everything on the boat forward. In light winds you will want the mast almost straight up, in heavier winds you will want to tilt the mast backward to depower the boat and make the bow ride higher in the water. After you get used to your boat, you will have a very good idea what kind of angle you want on the mast for given conditions. Does your jib line have a pully somewhere along the line and does it have a wire inside the sail itself? On a hobie 16, the jib has a wire inside the sail that becomes the main stay once the sail is up. This allows you to hoist the jib sail tight and take up the slack in the shrouds at the same time. Do you have trap lines that you will also be mounting? If you don't, you should, flying a hull while hanging out on the trap is a blast! You will also need a good righting line installed on the boat before you even think about putting it in the water! Do not skimp on the righting line. You can easily make one from parts at the hardware store. I used to make my own and had it set to be adjustable. It also served as a "sissy" line for the crew to hang on to while out on the trap. Usually only takes a good rope, some heavy bungee cord and a couple of clips and some small rollers if you want to get real fancy. It is also a good tow rope should you need one, and if you sail enough, your probably will eventually. Here's a pic a friend sent me, might inspire you to get that boat in the water this weekend	2002-08-10
Beached	STRINGBOX, Now that's the info I've been searching for. The jib has the head,tack and clew cringles.The forestay runs through the jib.A pulley at the masthead keeps the jib taut.You've read my mind about trap and righting lines.Thanks for the advice.By the way,the picture you sent made me reevaluate my priorities.	2002-08-10
StringBox	Ed I took my wife out sailing yesterday on my friends new cat. Her first time on a sail boat of any kind. It was a bit choppy and gusty, the wind was blowing dead straight in to the beach at about 20 knots from the North. Not the best day for a first timer, but we had a blast! Once we were flying a hull she could'nt get enough. Good luck with the boat, I'd love to see pictures when you get her to the water.	2002-08-11
Knoxes	String - I was at Litchfield all last week and man it was honking!!! We used to bring a Cheshire cat down with us, but it's really not made for blue water. But a great lake boat - 14', 135 sq ft and about 175 pds rigged. I miss that boat... it's been sitting at the lake rotting for the past 10 years... sails are still in good condition, wouldn't take much to get it going again... hmmm...	2002-08-12
Beached	STRINGBOX and KNOXES You guys are torturing me!! I've spent 15 years aboard 125' tugboats. Some of it off of CAPE HATTERAS (allways an adventure)!! I need a saltwater fix...fast.QUESTION- what limitations on sea and wind speed would you put on a 15' cat. ---------------------- been beached to long	2002-08-12
StringBox	Now that's a loaded question. Depends on the boat and the sailer. anywhere from about 10 to 20 knots is great! Anything much more than that gets a little wild and makes for big swells. Cats tend to be a bit overpowered anyway. A new sailer should look for a nice calm morning to get used to his boat. 5 to 10 knots will fill the sails without much risk of blowing over. I've occasionally been stuck in some really big stuff which is fun to talk about after it's over, not so great when you are in the middle of it beating back to shore. I'd recommend getting some practice time righting the boat under controlled circumstances before getting into the big water. Even on a calm day I always look over the entire boat before entering the water. Check every screw, line, batten, sheet and sail. Then stand back and take a good look as you say a little prayer. It is so much easier to fix it on the beach.	2002-08-13
Knoxes	Well it kinda depends. I've pitched a Hobie 16 in about 25 knots but very little sea (user error ) great story actually - had an lawyer and his 9 yr old son on board giving a "lesson" - couldn't get those guys aft enough to keep the lee from digging in - sure enough, we got a puff, that sucker dug and we went end over - I'll never forget that one. I don't know anything about the McGregor's but if they are anything like the keel boat, I'd be a bit cautious - hope nobody's offended by that. I'd hold off over 17-18 until you know what you've got there. You can't have any fun with much less but make sure you can right it. Definitely don't want to turtle with tide and breeze heading out. It's a long way to the other shore.	2002-08-13
Beached	Thanks!! It all sounds like good advice.Lets talk overkill! The only shroud that came with this cat is 1/8" stainless steel.The sleeve above the thimble was crimped with a hammer instead of a crimping tool.Is 1/8" stainless thick enough? Would you use two sleeves? Can I borrow your crimping tool? [just kidding]. .................................... I'm gonna have to put you guy's on my xmas card list****	2002-08-13
StringBox	Ed If you have any doubt, replace the shroud. I've been de-masted more than once. It's just not worth taking the chance. Besides, your crew (wife, girl friend, hot babe from the beach) will never go sailing with you again, or even worse, never let you live it down. I once rescued two guys who had lost a mast in a storm. Bad Storm! Their boat washed up on the beach 8 months later. Go to a sail boat shop and have them make you up some brand new shrouds.	2002-08-14
Beached	Stringbox, I've been trusting you for good,sound advice.But I find it a little insane ( and crowded ) to have a wife,girl friend and hot babe from the beach all on one crew.	2002-08-15
Knoxes	Unless, like mine, they are one-in-the-same.	2002-08-15
Beached	Any response to that line will get us ALL in trouble.	2002-08-16
Knoxes	Yeah, I noticed that had kinda brought this thread to an end. What can I say - I'm happily married.	2002-08-19
Beached	Knoxes and Stringbox, Just to bring you up to date. I up dated some hardware,added new "crimped" shrouds and rigged new lines.I'm still working on a trapeze rig.I took Sunday off from doing "things" I was supposed to do and declared a "boat day".I spent the day washing,compounding,polishing and waxing. I found a beach in Sea Isle,New Jersey that caters to catamarans.I'll let you guys know how it's going. Thanks again for sharing your past experiences and technical info. --------------------------------------- Who is it that once said "It's easy once you know how"?	2002-08-19
Beached	Knoxes and Stringbox, Just to bring you up to date. I up dated some hardware,added new "crimped" shrouds and rigged new lines.I'm still working on a trapeze rig.I took Sunday off from doing "things" I was supposed to do and declared a "boat day".I spent the day washing,compounding,polishing and waxing. I found a beach in Sea Isle,New Jersey that caters to catamarans.I'll let you guys know how it's going. Thanks again for sharing your past experiences and technical info. --------------------------------------- Who is it that once said "It's easy once you know how"?	2002-08-19
Beached	HEY...can anybody recommend a jib furling brand or system.My forestay bolts directly to the center of a bow to bow crossmember.	2002-08-21
Knoxes	Ed - you may want to post a new topic for better response to this one. FWIW, Pop's keelboat has a Harken system, I think, and it's been easy to work with aside from a couple of small design issues. I'm pretty sure he's never had a problem with it. Can't say that I've seen a cat with a furling, but I don't pay much attention these days. I guess it would make rigging a little easier if you could keep it stepped, but we never really kept the mast up, so it wouldn't have made sense. It's not like on the keelboat where you have to drag the 150 up from below (oomph..), clip all those rings on the stay, run the sheets, then haul that thing up. That's work.	2002-08-23
Beached	Knoxes, Good idea.I'll post a new topic.	2002-08-25

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